John Piper interviews Rick Warren (updated)

Posted on June 27, 2011 by Reformed Joe

From the traffic to my blogs I see that folks want to know if I commented on the Piper/Warren interview.

The truth is this interview changed nothing for me. I just see it as the latest in the chapter in the Downgrade of John Piper & Desiring God Ministries and Rick Warren being Rick Warren.

To read what I’ve written before see the link below.

My thoughts on John Piper, on Rick Warren’s message at the DGNC 2010 and the Celebrity Preacher Driven Conferences.

For a detailed look at this interview, I suggest you listen to or download the mp3 of Chris Rosebrough and Phil Johnson’s critique of this interview. Chris includes many clips of Warren’s previous messages and compares what Warren said previously VS the answers that he gave Piper here.

- – Part 1

- Part 2

- Part 3

I pretty much agree with their critique here, with the exception that Phil Johnson is way too charitable towards John Piper and perhaps Phil’s friendship with Piper is clouding his judgment on Piper.

One inconsistency they missed.

There seems to be an inconsistency between Warren’s story on how and when he was called to preach and his call to ministry from the story here and a previous story he has told many times.

Warren said here, that he was preaching in High School @ the age of 16 and that he preached over 100 revivals by the age of 20.

Previously Warren has told the story many times, that he received the call to preach and the call to go into ministry at the age of 19, that he skipped his college classes and drove over 350 miles to hear Dr. W.A. Criswell preach, he went up after the message was over to shake the hand of Dr. Criswell and Dr. Criswell prayed over him. Warren made it sound like Dr. Criswell passed some kind of mantle to him that day.

Truth – I was a member of FBC-Dallas for 12 years, during the end of Dr. Criswell’s ministry there. Dr. Criswell did this regularly [praying over young men called to ministry]. Dr. Criswell started The Criswell College because he had a soft spot in his heart for young men going into ministry. While he was alive and could get donations for the College, the tuition there was only slightly higher than the Dallas Community College system then. I know I went there a couple of semesters in the early 1990′s.

Filed under: Biblicism, Desiring God, fad christianity, Fighting for the Faith, John Piper, Leadership Network, Mega Church, Missional, Muti Site Churches, Pirate Christian Radio, Rick Warren, SBC, Seeker-Driven Idiocracy, Southern Baptist, Team Pyro | Tagged: 2010 Desiring God Ministries Conference, 2011 Desiring God Ministries West Coast Conference, Bethlehem Baptist Church, Celebrity Preachers, Chris Rosebrough, Christless Christianity, Church Growth, Contextualization, culture wars, Desiring God Ministries, Evangelicalism, fad christianity, Grace to You, John Piper, John Piper interviews Rick Warren, John Piper interviews Rick Warren on Doctrine, Leadership Network, Mega Church, Missional, Multi Site Churches, Peter Drucker, Phil Johnson, Phil Johnson's critique of the Piper/Warren Interview, Piper/Warren interview, Pragmatism, Purpose-Driven Network, Rick Warren, Saddleback Church, Seeker-Driven Idiocracy, Social Gospel | Leave a Comment »

Narrow is the Path is closing down

Posted on April 9, 2011 by Reformed Joe

Thank you for reading this blog

I’m no longer going to be posting new posts here.

I left some posts up from the last few months on Rob Bell, Rick Warren, Mark Driscoll, Joel Osteen, and John Piper.

For new content go to

http://pilgrimagetogeneva.com/

Filed under: Christless Christianity, Desiring God, Emergent Church, Emerging Church, Evangelical, fad christianity, John Piper, Leadership Network, Mark Driscoll, Mega Church, Missional, Muti Site Churches, Pragmatism, Prosperity Gospel, Rick Warren, SBC | Tagged: Acts 29 Network, Celebrity Preachers, Christless Christianity, Church Growth, Contextualization, Emergence Christianity, Emergent, emergent methodology, Emergent Postmodernity, Emerging Church, fad christianity, Joel Osteen, John Piper, Leadership Network, Mark Driscoll, Mega Church, Missional, Multi Site Churches, Narrow is the Path, Pragmatism, Rick Warren, Rob Bell, Social Gospel | Leave a Comment »

Dr. Michael Horton critiques Rob Bell (via White Horse Inn blog)

Posted on March 17, 2011 by Reformed Joe

Heaven, Hell & The Theology of Rob Bell

Mar.15, 2011 by Michael Horton from Out of the Horse’s Mouth Blog

Not having read Rob Bell’s book yet (it’s on the way), I can only respond to what I have seen and heard: his own statements in interviews and the quotes from pre-publication copies carefully and thoughtfully reviewed by Tim Challies and Kevin DeYoung.

On the merits of the case so far (as much as I’ve heard), I’m inclined to dismiss this latest critique of hell as warmed-over liberalism. I’m not being mean and sweepingly judgmental here. Seriously, read Schleiermacher’s The Christian Faith, Albrecht Ritschl’s The Christian Doctrine of Justification and Reconciliation, not to mention other works by Wilhelm Herrmann, Adolf Harnack, Harry Emerson Fosdick, Bishop John Spong, or Brian McLaren, and you have the basic gist.

That basic scheme goes like this: God’s only attribute is love; his holiness, righteousness, and justice have to be adjusted to this central dogma. Human beings are not deserving of God’s wrath, but only of his encouragement and empowerment to improve. Jesus Christ is primarily a moral teacher, who invites us to share in his vision of creating “a kingdom of ethical righteousness” (Ritschl’s phrase, basically from Immanuel Kant). Since there is no divine justice to satisfy or wrath to propitiate, the cross cannot be represented as a vicarious substitution of “the Lamb of God” for sinners. Since there is no objective condemnation, there can be no objective justification. Since everyone is a child of God, there can be no adoption. The church is merely the community of volunteers for the kingdom-building enterprise. Heaven and hell are as subjective as sin and redemption: it all depends on what you make of your life right now. Yale’s H.Richard Niebuhr captured the essence of liberal religion in this fine description: “A God without wrath brought people without sin into a kingdom without judgment through a Christ without a cross.”

The White Horse Inn on Rob Bell & Love Wins (via The White Horse Inn Blog)

Posted on March 16, 2011 by Reformed Joe

White Horse Inn – Bonus Episode | Heaven & Hell

Mar.16, 2011 by Out of the Horse’s Mouth Blog

Are heaven and hell subjective states of mind or real objective places? That’s the focus of this special BONUS edition of the White Horse Inn as the hosts talk with Kevin DeYoung, author of The Good News We Almost Forgot, and What is the Mission of the Church? The interview primarily centers on Kevin’s recent review of the controversial new release, Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived by Rob Bell.

Heaven, Hell & the Theology of Rob Bell
Michael Horton
God is Still Holy
Kevin DeYoung (offsite)
Hell: The Very Idea of It
Michael Horton
Heaven Came Down
Michael Horton

RECOMMENDED BOOKS

What is the Mission of the Church?
Kevin DeYoung & Greg Gilbert (forthcoming from Crossway)
Why We’re Not Emergent
Kevin DeYoung & Ted Kluck
The Good News We Almost Forgot
Kevin DeYoung
The Christian Faith
Michael Horton

Filed under: Christless Christianity, Dr. Micheal Horton, Emergent Church, fad christianity, false gospel, Leadership Network, Mega Church, Missional, Pragmatism, Seeker-Driven Idiocracy, Social Gospel | Tagged: Celebrity Preachers, Christless Christianity, Contextualization, culture wars, Doctrine of Hell, Dr. Kim Riddlebarger, Dr. Michael Horton, Dr. Rod Rosenbladt, Emergence Christianity, Emergent, Emergent Church, emergent methodology, Emergent Postmodernity, Emergent Village, Emerging Church, false gospel, false teacher, Heaven, Heaven & Hell, Heterodoxy, Kevin DeYoung, Leadership Network, Love Wins, Love Wins - Rob Bell, Mars Hill, Mars Hill Church, Mega Church, Missional, Multi Site Churches, Peter Drucker, Post Modern Liberalism, Pragmatism, Rev. Ken Jones, Rob Bell, Salvation, Seeker-Driven Idiocracy, Social Gospel, The White Horse Inn, transformationalism, transformationalist, univerisalism, Westminster Seminary California, White Horse Inn - Bonus Episode Heaven & Hell | Leave a Comment »

Fighting for the Faith’s critique of Rob Bell’s Love Wins interview

Posted on March 15, 2011 by Reformed Joe

Rob Bell’s Love Wins Interview with Lisa Miller of Newsweek

• Rob Bell’s Love Wins Interview with Lisa Miller of Newsweek

Filed under: Christless Christianity, Emergent Church, fad christianity, false gospel, Fighting for the Faith, Leadership Network, Missional, Pirate Christian Radio, Pragmatism, Seeker-Driven Idiocracy | Tagged: Chris Rosebrough, Christless Christianity, Church Growth, Contextualization, Emergence Christianity, Emergent Church, emergent methodology, Emergent Postmodernity, Emergent Village, false gospel, false teacher, Fighting for the Faith, Hell, Leadership Network, Love Wins, Mars Hill Church, Mega Church, Missional, Multi Site Churches, Pirate Christian Radio, Post Modern Liberalism, Post Modernism, Pragmatism, Rob Bell, Seeker-sensitive, Social Gospel, univerisalism | Leave a Comment »

God Is Still Holy and What You Learned in Sunday School Is Still True: A Review of “Love Wins”

Posted on March 14, 2011 by Reformed Joe

God Is Still Holy and What You Learned in Sunday School Is Still True: A Review of “Love Wins”

Note: This post is long. You can go here for a PDF version of the 20-page review.

Love Wins, by megachurch pastor Rob Bell, is, as the subtitle suggests, “a book about heaven, hell, and the fate of every person who ever lived.” Here’s the gist: Hell is what we create for ourselves when we reject God’s love. Hell is both a present reality for those who resist God and a future reality for those who die unready for God’s love. Hell is what we make of heaven when we cannot accept the good news of God’s forgiveness and mercy. But hell is not forever. God will have his way. How can his good purposes fail? Every sinner will turn to God and realize he has already been reconciled to God, in this life or in the next. There will be no eternal conscious torment. God says no to injustice in the age to come, but he does not pour out wrath (we bring the temporary suffering upon ourselves), and he certainly does not punish for eternity. In the end, love wins.

Bell correctly notes (many times) that God is love. He also observes that Jesus is Jewish, the resurrection is important, and the phrase “personal relationship with God” is not in the Bible. He usually makes his argument by referencing Scripture. He is easy to read and obviously feels very deeply for those who have been wronged or seem to be on the outside looking in.

Unfortunately, beyond this, there are dozens of problems with Love Wins. The theology is heterodox. The history is inaccurate. The impact on souls is devastating. And the use of Scripture is indefensible. Worst of all, Love Wins demeans the cross and misrepresents God’s character.

To Read More……

Rob Bell trying to explain the basis of his controversial book to his congregation, after many concerns from members of that congregation.

Also See
UNREST WITH ROB BELL INSIDE MARS HILL BIBLE CHURCH

Filed under: Christless Christianity, Emergent Church, fad christianity, false gospel, Leadership Network, Pragmatism, Seeker-Driven Idiocracy | Tagged: Celebrity Preachers, Christless Christianity, Contextualization, culture wars, Emergence Christianity, Emergent, Emergent Church, emergent methodology, Emergent Postmodernity, Emergent Postmodernity and Fascism, Emergent Village, false gospel, Heterodoxy, Kevin DeYoung, Leadership Network, Love Wins, Mars Hill, Mega Church, Missional, Multi Site Churches, Peter Drucker, Pragmatism, Rob Bell, Social Gospel | Leave a Comment »

The Missional Church: An Attempt to Combine the Great Commission with Unbiblical Ideas (via 5 Pt. Salt)

Posted on February 22, 2011 by Reformed Joe

The Missional Church: An Attempt to Combine the Great Commission with Unbiblical Ideas

By Joel Taylor of 5 pt. Sat

There are very disturbing ideas being promulgated in these modern times regarding the Church of Jesus Christ. It is being done not only by those on the proverbial religious fringe, but within mainstream protestant denominations; and not only that but by highly popular, and very public, so-called ‘new calvinists’ preachers and conference speakers.

I say disturbing, because those who are making such ideas popular seem to have a faulty understanding of the nature of the Church itself. That is not only disturbing – given their influence on the young, reformed and restless – but also dangerous. Dangerous because false. When it comes to Biblical truth and the proclamation thereof, false is bad.

Missional Falsehood

Missional. It is quite the buzzword these days. It is popular among ‘the reformed’. In fact, it is beyond popular, it is almost considered biblically necessary. From Tim Keller, Mark Driscoll and a hosts of SBC wanna-be’s to the Gospel Coalition, being missional is all the rage. It is also unbiblical, as presented, and I have no hesitation in saying so. In fact, I must say so, because those with whom influence rests are silent or participatory in it. They dare not risk their glorious theological careers.

For example, Tim Keller, from his recent lecture “Contextual and Missional” at Urban Plant Life Conference in London, spoke regarding the nature of a missional church – please read this quote carefully: